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#1211, #1212, #1213: FeelingsCourt Is In Session On Several Accumulated Matters Of The Heart

By
June 26, 2019
advice, big discussions, boundaries, BREAKING UP, bygones, Captain Awkward's Dating Guide for Geeks, Captain Awkward's Laws of Social Media, cheating, COMMUNICATION, crushes, Dating, Enthusiastic Consent, ethics, Geek Social Fallacies, invitations, Manners, marriage, Overthinking It, Patreon, Reader Questions, Relationships, sexuality, Social Interactions
144 Comments

I have some questions about romantic feelings and dating and breakups accumulating and I don’t know if they all belong together, but maybe they don’t all need separate threads? I think what they might have in common is people who are trying to rules-lawyer their own hearts.

Let’s find out!

Hello Captain Awkward,

I’m not sure if a good friend of mine [20F] is over me [20] or not, please help!

I’m in a tough spot with a good friend of mine (let’s say Carroll) that I’ve known for about a year at college. Early this past freshman year we both hit it off really well, and she’s a great person. We both seemed to like each other for a while but we both got cold feet around the first third of the year. Thinking about a relationship with her, I constantly came to the conclusion that I was happy with my lifestyle, and starting a relationship wouldn’t be preferable (I haven’t gotten into too many relationships). However, with sophomore year approaching, our living situations seem to be more compatible, and my attitude towards a relationship with her has changed to be more positive.

Over the course of the year, things weren’t really awkward and we are still good friends. However, at several points near the end of the year, there were points where it seemed like she was talking to her friends about me and laughing about it. I wouldn’t consider her gossipy, it seems like the people she hangs with always want to discuss things in secret with her. This might be me just being paranoid (I’m not the center of their universe lol), but there were also points where my own friends poked fun about the whole situation to me (in the presence of her, ugh) and she seemed to think it was funny as well. To be more specific, she didn’t really join in on the joke, she just kinda whispered something to her friends shortly after, finding it amusing.

Thus, I’m in a sticky situation. To be honest with myself, I’ve found it hard to get over her. I’m not sure if we’re both still in the stage of cold feet, or if she’s gotten over me and thinks of me as a joke to her friends. I know a lot of this is paranoia, but I want to be able to get closure on this, since all I feel when talking to her sometimes is that I’m a big joke to her. My main point is how to clarify this with her given this worry. It’s hard to clarify with her because for all I know, it’s the latter and things will only become more awkward by speaking to her, furthering her attitude and preconceptions. She’s a great friend and if she’s truly moved on, then I don’t want to hinder our future as friends. But if she does have feelings, it’s something I don’t want to ignore.

Thank you!

Hi there! You are now Letter Writer #1211!

Do you want to be in a romantic relationship with Carroll now? y/n

Do you want to just go on being friends with her, but without this weird vibe you’re getting that there’s a joke you’re not quite getting? y/n

Have you ever had an out loud conversation with Carroll along the lines of “should we date each other? y/n”? Where she was “y” and you were more “n” (or something else)?

I ask because I can’t tell from this whether you and Carroll had a little bit of a romantic relationship earlier this year, almost had a romantic relationship, talked/joked about dating but never took it there, or whether everything about your attitude, living situation, “lifestyle,” etc. was entirely in your head and she had no idea (or she had some idea but it never got spelled out). People don’t forget the time they confessed a crush and got turned down, so there’s no pretending that didn’t happen if it did, I’m just trying to figure out where “start” is, if that makes sense.

You keep talking about Carroll’s (possibly assumed?) feelings for you but mostly not your feelings. Except right here: “To be honest with myself, I’ve found it hard to get over her.” A-ha! Eureka! Start there, sit with that, work with that. What do you feel and what do you want from Carroll now. Not “what you would be sort of okay with settling for” or “what you would possibly consider” or “what you could make work if you just knew for sure what she wanted.” What do you most want to happen now. If you’re going to risk rejection or  making things slightly weirder than they already are between you before they resolve into the eventual right shape, at least you can know that you’re acting from a place of integrity and honesty with yourself.

Once you’ve got your feelings…”under control” isn’t the right term, let’s go with…admitted? It’s decision time. Awkward or not, there’s no “clarifying” Carroll And Her Feelings without talking to Carroll about her feelings. Depending on what you want, there are plenty of scripts:

  • “Carroll, would you like to go on a date with me on (day) and (time) (and yes it is a DATE date.)” Maybe you don’t have to decide everything about the future with this person, maybe you can take it one date at a time and try.
  • “Carroll, I know when we talked before I wasn’t interested in a romantic relationship, but I have changed my mind. Would you still be open to that?” If she took the risks of speaking up last time, it is definitely 100% your turn now.
  • “Carroll, buddy, friend, I feel like there’s some joke that I’m the subject of but not quite in on. Am I imagining that? Mind letting me in on it?” If you just want to stay friends but you want to clear up the strange vibe you’re picking up on, this is the way. If you want to be with Carroll, this is not the place to start.

Friendships can survive awkward crushes that don’t quite go anywhere, as long as everyone is honest and kind and keeps their senses of humor. If you want to be with Carroll, ask, try, risk, be vulnerable, put it out there. If you don’t want to be with her, especially if you’ve already rejected her, the kindest thing to do is probably let this subject drop. stay pleasant and friendly, let her have her comic asides with friends, and put your energy into other friendships while the Good Ship Feelings About Carroll rights itself after passing through a few rough straits.

That’s the heart of my advice: Start from what you feel and what you want, and don’t work so hard to manage or predict other people’s feelings. 

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#1209: “Is there a way to get good at setting boundaries that isn’t so situation-specific?” (Boundaries School!)

By
June 20, 2019
big discussions, boundaries, COMMUNICATION, ethics, Friendship, Geek Social Fallacies, Manners, Overthinking It, Reader Questions, Relationships, the art of no
365 Comments

Hello, Captain!

Could you talk about how to be good at setting boundaries in a non-situation-specific way? You get a lot of letters from people who are having trouble with someone else not respecting their boundaries, and obviously that is not the time to say “are you sure you really communicated what you meant?” But I (she/her) am someone who is GREAT at respecting “no,” but really, really bad at understanding deflection and being ‘politely’ ignored. I sometimes worry that people may generalize your excellent advice for a specific situation –

1) Express boundary
2) Hold firm on boundary
3) Minimize contact

to –

A) Gently hint at boundary
B) Gently hint at boundary again
C) Walk away.

Because that is definitely a thing that has happened to me. Not all friendships/relationships are meant to be, of course, but I really enjoy being able to be friends with people who see the world differently than I do, even when it requires a little extra communication work. So I’m wondering what you think the best way is to check in with oneself early in a relationship, when things are just barely irritating (when you, Captain, are very unlikely to be getting letters), about whether the actual, literal word “no” (or “stop”) has been said and ignored? Because I’m also pretty sure I’ve been on both sides of this, because who loves provoking conflict? Not me!

A Libra Who Doesn’t Really Believe in Astrology Except For That Balance Thing Which Is Awesome

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#1208: “Question about Mom Friends being too Mothering:” BOUNDARIES SCHOOL is in session.

By
June 10, 2019
boundaries, control, emotional abuse, forced teaming, friends, Friendship, Geek Social Fallacies, How Not To Be, how to say no, manipulation, Overthinking It, Personal Safety, Reader Questions, Roommates, saying no, the art of no, the gift of fear
382 Comments

As promised…more “If you’re ‘not allowed’ to say no to someone, they are not acting like friends” content. I have kept the Letter Writer’s subject line as the post title so that readers too can have the “Wait, where is the part where this person is an actual mom” “Oh wait, phew, this person isn’t anyone’s actual mother, that would be even more horrifying” realization that The Goat Lady (my trusty inbox sorter) and I did.

Dear Captain,

I (she/her) have a friend, “Mary” who is, by her own admission, a “mom” friend. Mary is very kind– but emotionally overreaching. She feels responsible for making sure her friends are well cared for. Mary has even joked that if it weren’t for her, her friends would buy nothing but junk food and toys at the grocery store, instead of groceries. When we get together, Mary will insist on cooking, even when somebody else volunteers to cook instead. If one of us DOES cook, Mary will hover, or “help” by essentially taking over the cooking–adding ingredients and more or less pushing the other cook out of the kitchen. Mary will consistently cite any accident or mistake any of us have made as an excuse to swoop in. Then she will complain that she is always the one stuck with the cooking.

Mary also feels very much–if she thinks her friends are upset or potentially upset, she will become upset for them. (For example, I have been very stressed at work and with personal projects, and Mary started crying because I “am going to burn out” and that I am “such a perfectionist that you are going to hurt yourself!”) If I complain to Mary about anything, be it annoyance over traffic to a problem with a coworker, it becomes a “problem” and Mary is quick to give me unsolicited advice, get defensive for me or otherwise volunteer to help me solve this “problem.”

If she knows I am struggling with something, Mary will constantly bring it up (probably in an attempt to reinforce what she thinks is the “positive” message), or turn even a casual comment (“I wish could sleep for five years,”) into a big referendum or discussion on my mental health. If we have a difficult conversation or discussion, it will end with Mary crying, clutching me like I am some sort of child and even kissing the top of my head while I am just feeling frustrated. If I try to establish boundaries (“This isn’t a topic I am willing to discuss with you, let’s talk about something else”), my boundaries are immediately overridden. In fact, it seems as if my attempts to establish boundaries are interpreted by Mary as a further excuse to involve herself in me and my life!

I know that Mary is coming from a place of love and care. What reads to me as “manipulative” and “immature,” aren’t necessarily that–it’s just that it is to me! (Ed. note: IT’S NOT JUST YOU) I care very much about Mary but I am reaching the end of my rope. I understand this is part of the “mom” friend aspect, but Cap, I HATE being mothered. My own mother doesn’t even “mother” me. It has never worked on me, and will never work on me, no matter how many times Mary tries to become my surrogate mom. I’m trying hard not to become a hallmark-movie-style troubled teen and start yelling “You are not my real mom!” at her.

Sometimes, I just need to vent or talk about my issues without needing a “solution” or it turning into an “argument.” I feel like I have to walk on eggshells around Mary because even a casual joke (the kind that everyone in our generation and friend group makes!) becomes an emotionally exhausting exercise where I am left feeling emotionally infantilized and I start to resent Mary’s lack of maturity.

On top of this, Mary is attending therapy and seems to think herself the authority on all matters now–she declares herself an expert on conflict resolution but her form of “resolution” is to cry until she gets what she wants or can manipulate the narrative to seem like she was correct (in case it wasn’t obvious by now, Mary has an INTENSE martyrdom complex.)

I don’t want to lose Mary as a friend, and I can’t really get away from her for now. I don’t know how to explain to Mary that I don’t need a “mom” or a “mom friend,” and that her “mothering” is making it impossible to just be “friends.” How do you get a “mom friend” to stop “mothering” her friends?

I don’t know how to ask Mary to emotionally detach herself from me and my problems without making it seem like I am asking her to get out of my life. I also don’t know how I could possibly have these difficult conversations with Mary without it turning into an emotional meltdown on Mary’s part that she then projects onto me, as further evidence that I “need” her. Can you help me find a script to deal with Mary?

Thanks,

She’s not my mom (friend)

Optional P.S. Neither of us are parents, apologies if it was confusing!

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#1207: “I moved away from a roommate who treated me like her on-call therapist, but she won’t let go. How can I tell her ‘nicely’ that I don’t want to be friends anymore?”

By
June 8, 2019
advice, boundaries, BREAKING UP, bygones, control, forced teaming, Friendship, Geek Social Fallacies, how to say no, manipulation, Overthinking It, Personal Safety, Reader Questions, Roommates, the art of no
93 Comments

This is going to be the first of a two-part series on how people who can’t hear the word ‘no’ are not your friends.

Hey Captain!

I (she/her) just moved out of a group house. I lived with five other people in the house, including a couple (Elsie and Jenna). Elsie (she/her) and I are pretty good friends and have known each other for a few years. I met Jenna (she/her) through Elsie when they started dating. before we lived together, I would have said we were low-key friends and that I thought she was cool, but I had never hung out with her without Elsie and we only ever saw each other in group contexts.

Elsie and Jenna’s fairly stable, two year long relationship became super rocky during the year we all lived together due to a lot of factors. During this period, both Elsie and Jenna, but especially Jenna, deeply relied on me for a lot of comfort/help/emotional processing. I like helping people and I think of myself as a comforting person, and I don’t mind helping, but this got out of hand incredibly quickly and soon I was spending all my free time processing Jenna’s emotions. This only got worse when they eventually broke up and Elsie moved out. Jenna would wait for me to get home and immediately come to my room to process for hours. I work two jobs that both require a lot of emotional labor and was struggling with depression and did not have the bandwidth for this. It made my living situation a personal nightmare for me, and I dreaded coming home. I attempted to set up boundaries (telling her I wasn’t interested in talking about it anymore! saying I was tired! locking my door!) but she was pushy and I didn’t stick to my guns enough. She also did a lot of unrelated things that made me uncomfortable in the breakup aftermath, such as trying to date a bunch of my friends/literally anyone I brought to the house to hang out, which made my friends uncomfortable so I felt like i couldn’t have friends over (a whole separate weird issue). Eventually, I just moved out of the house because I couldn’t take it anymore. I now live in a much better situation and feel much happier.

Since my move Jenna has reached out to me constantly about hanging out/spending time together. Three times in the last week, she has asked me to attend an event I was already attending with other friends, invited herself, and then brought a date along and made a HUGE deal about the fact that she was bringing a date (which is a part of her whole weird “I’m single and horny” thing she’s doing right now). She talks constantly about how much she misses me and is always asking to spend time together. I suspect part of this is because I’m a connection to Elsie (every time we hang she asks me about Elsie/talks about Elsie and I try to shut it down, but she just does it the next time anyway), and the other half is because she wants to keep using me as free therapy. I want out! I need space! We are not actually friends, she just uses me as therapy. I thought it would stop when I moved, but it hasn’t.

How do I nicely express to this girl that:

A. I refuse to process this breakup with her anymore
B. I wish she wouldn’t invite herself to plans I already made with other people
C. Its weird and unnecessary to bring dates to every interaction we have
D. I need her to hang out with her actual friends and give me some fucking space already

Thanks!!

Sincerely,

I’m not your personal live in breakup therapist

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#1206: How do explain that I’m almost-but-not-quite divorced in my brand new dating profile?

By
June 6, 2019
bad internet dating, Captain Awkward's Dating Guide for Geeks, Dating, ethics, Overthinking It, Reader Questions, rejection, Relationships, Sex, terrifyingly amazing

Hello Captain Awkward,

Last month my husband and I (she/her) separated; it was my choice and I stayed in the home while he moved out. We were in couple’s therapy for several years leading up to the split and for the last part of the relationship we were living as roommates. For almost the last year, we were on opposite work schedules, so I only saw him 1-2x/week. I have no regrets about ending things and zero interest in getting back together. My ex and I are treating each other as kindly as possible during this transition and there has been no animosity/hostility. All my family and friends say I have been adjusting surprisingly well, but for me the relationship died a long time ago. I have discussed this with my individual therapist (“should I be more upset?!”) but she thinks I am taking good care of myself and I should not be anxious about something that I do not feel.

All this to say that I feel ready to start casually dating again. I have a great job, amazing friends, multiple hobbies/interests, practice self-care, and want to make the most of this summer. I am not looking for a boyfriend or anything monogamous; just looking to meet some interesting people, eat some tasty food, and start having sex again (it’s been months). I signed up for a dating app and started messaging guys which has been fun.

However, I am starting to have some anxiety about telling these men about my separation status as I fear they are going to judge me for jumping into the dating game so soon. I have not put anything on my profile about being separated. Part of me thinks that no one is going to swipe right when they see this, due to the stigma and because I am only 29 years old (“so young, so much baggage!”) Am I deluding myself? Should I be putting this on my profile and being transparent from the start?

I guess I hope once people meet me in person (and see that I am not someone who consistently whines about their ex/failed past relationship) they will not think it is a big deal. My plan was to tell people on the first or second date before too much emotional investment is made. I know I could easily hook up with guys who would not care, however I am not interested in having one-off sex with random dude-bros who only list their height in their profile.

If I should put separated on my profile, any recommendations for wording (besides “Separated BUT WELL ADJUSTED” haha)? The advice from my friends is split and the internet is no help. A lot of online advice says people should not start dating until after the divorce is finalized, but where I live you cannot file until you have been separated for a whole year, which is way too long!

Thanks,

Ready-To-Get-On-With-My-Life

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#1205: Can apologizing to your ex be constructive?

By
June 5, 2019
boundaries, BREAKING UP, bygones, COMMUNICATION, Overthinking It, Reader Questions

Ahoy Captain,

I (she/her) was recently dumped by a guy (he/him). It’s now been about a month since we broke up, and we only dated for a few months. Since we split, I’ve been reflecting on some things that I wish I had handled differently in our relationship. We got lunch together a couple weeks ago and then he asked that we not talk for a couple weeks. I’ve respected that, but the end of the couple of weeks is coming up and we were hoping to be friends again. Should I try to apologize for things that I wish I’d done differently? Or is it better to just let it go and assume he doesn’t want to talk about it anymore? I don’t want it to turn into re-hashing old difficulties, and I don’t want to apologize if the only reason is so that I feel better. But if it might help him and our future friendship, I want him to know that I realize I wasn’t perfect and I aim to do better.

The longer version, if you want it:
I’ve mostly had polyamorous relationships in my life, and when I went into this one, I made an effort to show him positive aspects of polyamory and give him resources he could use to learn about it more as an option. At the time I’m not sure I was entirely clear even in my own head about what I wanted, but in retrospect I think that I would have been happy being either polyamorous or monogamous (we were monogamous throughout our relationship and I was happy with it). What I wanted was for him to make an effort to learn about and consider options other than monogamy, because I didn’t want to treat monogamy as the default, and I wanted to feel that he had some understanding and respect for my past relationships (e.g. didn’t think that polyamorous relationships couldn’t be serious and committed, when I’ve had serious and committed polyamorous relationships). Instead I gave the impression that, while I was happy with our relationship and willing to be patient, being polyamorous was ultimately important to me. This ended up making him feel like he was solely responsible for deciding whether or not he wanted to be polyamorous, and that our relationship couldn’t continue if he decided polyamory wasn’t for him (which is ultimately what he decided). He spent a while being anxious about needing to make this decision, and I’m afraid I didn’t listen to him enough in that time.

So basically what I want to tell him is: I’m sorry I put you through all that anxiety and made you feel like you had to figure it out on your own. I think I kind of assumed that I knew what was best for the relationship, and if I’d been a bit more humble, I would have approached it more as something we could figure out together. I know it’s too late for our relationship, but I think in the future, I’ll make a lot more effort to approach this issue as a discussion where we both consider different options and decide together what works best for us. I appreciate all the thought and effort you put into this, so I just wanted you to know that I acknowledge that and I wish I’d made it easier for you.

Does that sound at all helpful and constructive in moving forward? Or does it sound like it’s mostly self-serving on my part, and would mostly just re-open wounds and re-ignite arguments?

Thanks Captain.
-Ambiamorous Apologies

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#1203: “I’m getting married to God. How do I tell my family they’re not invited?”

By
June 3, 2019
COMMUNICATION, Culture, Events, Families, Manners, Overthinking It, Parents, Reader Questions, Weddings

Hi Captain!

I’m 24 years old, and next year I’m undergoing the “consecration of virgins” ceremony from Catholic tradition, where essentially I agree to give up romantic attatchments and “marry” myself to God, like halfway to being a nun. I’m very excited about this, and have already started plans for the ceremony, including dresses and rings and whatnot. Hurray for future fancy clothes day! \o/

My problem is with my family. None of my family are invited to the ceremony – I haven’t even told them that I’m undergoing it. I’m keeping the ceremony strictly in-faith, mainly because of the “woo” factor, but my family aren’t Catholic, and while my family are subscribed to the Big Man In The Sky idea, they’re not sold on the more “woo” aspects like divine intervention or godspousery. While they can believe what they like, freedom of faith and all that jazz, I’m not comfortable handling the spiritual disbelief of half my guests at my “wedding”. There’s also complicated history between us which I don’t want encroaching on what is a really important day for me. But I know they’re going to be hurt if I don’t invite them, and I feel horribly guilty about it, especially since this’ll be the closest thing they’ll get to a big white wedding for me!

How do I explain to my family about my upcoming “marriage” and why they’re not invited?

Thanks!

All The Lace

(ps: although I know you probably wouldn’t do this, I just want to make it clear that I’m not interested in any advice on finding “real” datemates to have a “real” marriage ❤ )

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